I always wonder how one can calculate that so exactly...Edrundor wrote:Unfortunately, I can't promise that nothing comes between, but else I'll come for sure. (approx. 90% chances that I'll come)
Thinktank Meeting II
Moderator: PPS-Leaders
Man I really had a shock when you and Patrick asked. I searched for the e-mail and found it in my sent-box. Also I remember David talking about its content so I suppose some people received the e-mail.
I'm still concerned, because that could mean that a lot of people who said they can come don't know that the meeting is in fact today.
I'm still concerned, because that could mean that a lot of people who said they can come don't know that the meeting is in fact today.
"I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite forum on the internet."
Well. For everybody who wants to review what we talked about yesterday here I present the protocol I made.
At the beginning we had our introduction round. Apart from the usual hard core of Orxonox developers and supporters, there were three students from the last PPS and a informatics student with us.
Dejan gave us some valuable inputs about how he experienced working on a project in a big group of students.
After we reviewed the last semester, the goals we set and the goals we reached we came to the conclusion that we made two main mistakes.
First we tried to go back to the roots and with the framework which was capable of more than just a 2D vertical scroller. The mistake was, that we tried to do something new every semester since the PPS has been started one and a half year ago.
Later on, some didn't really consider this a mistake, because Orxonox should make fun first, and be a good game later.
Second we never worked for the presentation but rather every single module separately and then someone had to put those modules together for the presentation.
There was also the input, that we should make the students more a part of the project and not just let them work on their modules and send them home afterwards.
Then Dejan's idea of the project leader came into discussion. He suggested that one or two of the students with leadership qualities could manage the communication and organization between the small groups working on their modules. This would make the whole merge of the modules, which should occur earlier in the semester anyway, easier.
This job has been done by the PPS leaders until now and because we were occupied in helping the students with their modeling and programming problems, we never had time to do this organization properly.
After this and a little break we made a poll about the genre. That was then the start of the great discussion of the evening.
We've been 13 people and 6 of us wanted to see Orxonox as a 2D vertical scroller in the future. Two of them chose this option because they thought the work on a 3D shooter is too much work.
4 of those 13 want Orxonox to be a 3D shooter in the first place, and if the majority will choose the 2D scroller, then we should consider a lot of 3D animations and cut sequences to give the game a three dimensional look.
2 persons argued for more first person shooter action in the game. They enjoyed the great work of x3n who built the big interior of the space station. They want to have this play mode in the game, if necessary next to one of the other ones which were mentioned.
This leaves us with the single person who argued for a action adventure RPG like Deus Ex.
The poll gives us a good understanding why there was this discussion afterwards. Nearly half of us argued for 3D action, the other half for 2D action which was the issue for the rest of the evening.
I noted some points, but the list is not exhaustive:
Pro 2D scroller:
We decided to discuss that matter among the PPS leaders again. We expect, if we let the students decide we have a 3D shooter, then again, PPS is not what the student want, but what they should learn, even if Orxonox has always been what the students wanted.
So this issue has not come to a conclusion for now and needs more thinking or probably just trying.
Thinking about yesterday I think the meeting was a success. We talked about the past of Orxonox and had an important discussion about its future. We found the main problems we had in the last semesters and we came to one main discussion about the future where we still need a decision.
So I think I'm at the end of this review of yesterday's events and want to talk about things we did not talked about at all. I want to have it stated though:
Patrick mentioned sound and music in the game. We never talked about that in the meetings but it is a really important subject. I think all of us agree, that sound effects and music are valuable parts of the atmosphere and we all remember the characteristic sound of a tank driving over a soldier in Command and Conquer. Nearly every gamer I know can hum the main theme of Monkey Island. Counter-Strike gamers know the sound of every weapon reloading and the crying of the suicide bombers in Serious Sam is classic. I could go on, but I think I made my point.
Therefore we still have to find somebody for the sound effects and probably for some additional music (of course we already have decent music from several artists).
Then, what not many of you probably know is, that Google mentioned to the current president of AMIV, that they are interested in sponsoring Orxonox. I talked to Patrick about it yesterday for a second and we both had to admit, that we do not know what we could need money for because the ETH gives us all the infrastructure we need for Orxonox and the PPS. Chrigi said that we could spend the money on different systems for testing. But what happens with those computers next to testing? We really have to give this "offer" a thought before we ask Google if there is really an interest.
If you had some ideas yesterday which you weren't able to put into discussion open a new topic in the subboard "future development and features".
I would also appreciate it if the discussion about 3D shooter and 2D scroller was held in a separate topic.
At the beginning we had our introduction round. Apart from the usual hard core of Orxonox developers and supporters, there were three students from the last PPS and a informatics student with us.
Dejan gave us some valuable inputs about how he experienced working on a project in a big group of students.
After we reviewed the last semester, the goals we set and the goals we reached we came to the conclusion that we made two main mistakes.
First we tried to go back to the roots and with the framework which was capable of more than just a 2D vertical scroller. The mistake was, that we tried to do something new every semester since the PPS has been started one and a half year ago.
Later on, some didn't really consider this a mistake, because Orxonox should make fun first, and be a good game later.
Second we never worked for the presentation but rather every single module separately and then someone had to put those modules together for the presentation.
There was also the input, that we should make the students more a part of the project and not just let them work on their modules and send them home afterwards.
Then Dejan's idea of the project leader came into discussion. He suggested that one or two of the students with leadership qualities could manage the communication and organization between the small groups working on their modules. This would make the whole merge of the modules, which should occur earlier in the semester anyway, easier.
This job has been done by the PPS leaders until now and because we were occupied in helping the students with their modeling and programming problems, we never had time to do this organization properly.
After this and a little break we made a poll about the genre. That was then the start of the great discussion of the evening.
We've been 13 people and 6 of us wanted to see Orxonox as a 2D vertical scroller in the future. Two of them chose this option because they thought the work on a 3D shooter is too much work.
4 of those 13 want Orxonox to be a 3D shooter in the first place, and if the majority will choose the 2D scroller, then we should consider a lot of 3D animations and cut sequences to give the game a three dimensional look.
2 persons argued for more first person shooter action in the game. They enjoyed the great work of x3n who built the big interior of the space station. They want to have this play mode in the game, if necessary next to one of the other ones which were mentioned.
This leaves us with the single person who argued for a action adventure RPG like Deus Ex.
The poll gives us a good understanding why there was this discussion afterwards. Nearly half of us argued for 3D action, the other half for 2D action which was the issue for the rest of the evening.
I noted some points, but the list is not exhaustive:
Pro 2D scroller:
- We have the framework on vertical scroller state.
- We are closer to a release with a vertical scroller.
- More action
- Less attractive for newcomers and especially PPS students.
- Still a lot of work because several things have to be reviewed or changed completely.
- Lots of content and tight level design.
- More attractive
- AI doesn't have to be restrained on 2D
- Closer view on the models the students built.
- Framework is at the moment designed for 2D scroller.
- AI has to be extended extremely.
- We have not much experience how a level should look like and what we need for a mission.
- Controls could prove to be difficult
We decided to discuss that matter among the PPS leaders again. We expect, if we let the students decide we have a 3D shooter, then again, PPS is not what the student want, but what they should learn, even if Orxonox has always been what the students wanted.
So this issue has not come to a conclusion for now and needs more thinking or probably just trying.
Thinking about yesterday I think the meeting was a success. We talked about the past of Orxonox and had an important discussion about its future. We found the main problems we had in the last semesters and we came to one main discussion about the future where we still need a decision.
So I think I'm at the end of this review of yesterday's events and want to talk about things we did not talked about at all. I want to have it stated though:
Patrick mentioned sound and music in the game. We never talked about that in the meetings but it is a really important subject. I think all of us agree, that sound effects and music are valuable parts of the atmosphere and we all remember the characteristic sound of a tank driving over a soldier in Command and Conquer. Nearly every gamer I know can hum the main theme of Monkey Island. Counter-Strike gamers know the sound of every weapon reloading and the crying of the suicide bombers in Serious Sam is classic. I could go on, but I think I made my point.
Therefore we still have to find somebody for the sound effects and probably for some additional music (of course we already have decent music from several artists).
Then, what not many of you probably know is, that Google mentioned to the current president of AMIV, that they are interested in sponsoring Orxonox. I talked to Patrick about it yesterday for a second and we both had to admit, that we do not know what we could need money for because the ETH gives us all the infrastructure we need for Orxonox and the PPS. Chrigi said that we could spend the money on different systems for testing. But what happens with those computers next to testing? We really have to give this "offer" a thought before we ask Google if there is really an interest.
If you had some ideas yesterday which you weren't able to put into discussion open a new topic in the subboard "future development and features".
I would also appreciate it if the discussion about 3D shooter and 2D scroller was held in a separate topic.
"I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite forum on the internet."
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests